Quote of the Day

“This massacre is therefore a further reminder of how easy it is for someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people in a school or a house of worship or a movie theater or a nightclub. We have to decide if that’s the kind of country we want to be. To actively do nothing is a decision as well.”

— President Obama, quoted by the New York Times, after noting the gunman in Orlando used a handgun and assault rifle to kill 50 people at a gay night club.

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  • Dodgson

    I don’t really think Obama is up for another one of these speeches.

    • Chammy

      I have a feeling he is up for another. I wish he would call out all those survivalists and insurrectionists who felt they had to arm themselves to the hilt because they just knew he would take their guns away.

      • Dodgson

        He just seems so beaten down.

        • nanotab

          I think he’s just extremely frustrated that Congress refuses to do anything sensible, like background checks, and then refuse gun sales to certain classes of people. I’d leave it to the FBI to suggest which classes of people, but it should include people who seem to be “radical Islamists” – actually anyone who seems to have terroristic intentions.

          • Allan Williams

            Or just everyone.

          • Dodgson

            Yeah, I initially mentioned that and then Disqus crashed (first time I’ve seen that). I’m not sure why it posted part of what I wrote.

          • Rondova

            Rather than refuse sales of all guns to certain classes of people, why not refuse sales of certain classes of guns to all people?

            The AR-15 was used in Orlando, Sandy Hook, San Bernadino, and several other high-profile shootings. It is time to ban the thing, and other assault weapons.

          • And let’s confiscate the ones that are out there, too. I’m serious.

      • jpic

        This won’t be the last such speech he makes. There will be two or three more before Jan. 20, 2017. Nothing will be done but in the end, we must abolish the 2nd Amendment but until that time, we must register all guns and license them. And ban all assault weapons. Those that are caught with them get an automatic 10 year prison stay.

        Few of us will live to see the day but it will certainly come, most likely in the 22nd century if we survive climate change. We had another near miss in LA today. Can you imagine if that whitey had succeeded. Again another conservative terrorist.

    • LarryBurt

      He’s very disheartened. He would like to see anything, but knows he will get nothing.

  • conspiracy

    Republicans should be in real bind with this. Turn the screw on them the same way they paint Democrats as weak on terrorism.

  • abctefg

    Tragic.

    • Chammy

      Its beyond tragic. When I turned on the TV this morning and saw the news, it felt like oh well, just another day in america. That is what’s tragic – to become numb to these events.

      • Mike

        Exactly, I read/watched very little news today to avoid hearing more about this massacre. My strongest reaction is disgust that nothing has been done or will be done to reduce the likelihood of such events because of the criminal indifference of the NRA to human life and craven nature of republicans.

  • “The NRA wants to take away our First Amendment right to peaceful assembly.”

    • Trajan8

      I like it, though to be fair it’s not intellectually honest. It’s similar to those who get fired for saying something racist (Don Imus, for example) saying their First Amendment right to free speech had been taken away. They are wrong in claiming that, as the First Amendment only prevents the government from taking away your right to free speech, likewise, what we have right now is not the government taking away our right to peaceably assemble.

      But it’s still an effective quote.

    • TimWolfe

      That’s a good point. However, I think at this point, “you’re either for common-sense assault weapon regulations or you support enabling and arming terrorists” is both more politically potent, and logically justified.

      • I read a summary of how a number of recent mass shooters got their guns. In most cases, they just went in and bought them, because there was nothing in their behavioral history that would indicate that they shouldn’t have access to firearms. Note that “assault weapon” is a marketing term, like “sports car.” Many of these folks were armed with shotguns and pistols. Take away their access to AR-15 class guns and they’ll just buy a Ruger 10/22.

        Given that there are over 400 million firearms in private hands and no reliable records of who has them, I think passing additional legislation is a fool’s errand. We can’t predict who will go nutso and we can’t remove the guns from law-abiding private hands for no reason other than “we’re scared.” There is no reliable way to fix this problem, just as we haven’t been able to eliminate cigarette smoking or traffic deaths.

        We’re simply a society where, every now and then, someone decides to star in their own little Robert Rodriguez movie. We’ve normalized evil behavior as a way for the aggrieved to “strike back” at humanity. It’s still shocking, but at some point, these stories will get the same level of coverage as “three killed by lightning on golf course.”

        • Chammy

          Sad but true

        • TimWolfe

          I can’t even imagine accepting such a society.

          It’s remarkably easy, isn’t it, to conclude that there is no way to fix the problem — or even improve it, I guess — in a world where the NRA will not even allow research to be done on it, or to allow even people on the f-ing terrorist watch list to be prevented from legally buying weapons.

          Your “cigarette smoking and traffic deaths” examples are incredibly, breath-takingly poor examples. In both cases, we used to have far, far higher cases of fatalities from these causes — and then we decided to do something about it. And we did, using both legislation and public campaigns, and made a better and safer world (without getting rid of cigs or cars, I shouldn’t have to point out).

  • Chammy

    I wonder when those cowards in the halls of congress are finally going to say FU to the NRA and gun lobby. Perhaps their approval ratings would go up if they showed some balls. Bernie is right about money in politics. Nobody needs an AR-15 weapon. If he had a smaller gun he could never have killed so many people. I heard Malcolm Nance say that originally AR-15 were made to carry 30 rounds and now they are making them to carry 60 and 70 rounds. Interestingly enough no one can get through the security at Congress. Perhaps we should change the laws and allow open carry anywhere on the grounds and in the halls of congress.

    • jgrillo

      The AR15 is a type/model of semi-automatic weapon. Have to squeeze the trigger every time you want to fire a round…just like any other semi-automatic weapon.

      So what is it you want to ban exactly? So that’s your issue…knock it down from 60 to 30 rounds and have a killer merely change out the magazine quickly? Actually the suicide vest is more effective and maybe we can have a ban on vests in department and sporting goods stores as well as dynamite and/or other explosives.

      NOTE:

      Chammy: I modified the first sentence in my post. It was rude, sorry.

      • Alki

        Haven’t been too many Oklahoma city style bombings since we started tracing fertilizer. It’s 2016, we can track guns and figure out how they’re getting into the wrong hands. We can do background checks. We’re too civilized a nation to fall back on talking points every time we lose people this way.

        • jgrillo

          “It’s 2016, we can track guns and figure out how they’re getting into the wrong hands.”

          That’s the point, we can’t and we haven’t. The database and the system of collecting records for the database is broken. Background checks would be extremely effective if we had an effective database.

          • Alki

            Do we both agree we should build one?

          • jgrillo

            Yep

          • Alki

            It’s rough when the resident Republican and the resident Huey Long supporter agree and congress *still* can’t get anything done.

          • KurtBusiek

            Heck, t’s not just sales and background checks. The CDC used to keep a database on gun violence. It was defunded by the GOP, led by Jay Dickey (R-AR).

            Dickey’s out of office now and has changed his mind, but Congress won’t refund the CDC’s studies.

            We _can_ track this sort of thing. We just don’t. Because one particular political party won’t allow it to happen.

          • jgrillo

            You are mixing apples with oranges with a comparison of two different types of databases. The FBI keeps statistics on gun violence and we already have a database…do you propose two databases? Because you do understand, that is a “no-no” from a practical and common sense perspective?

          • KurtBusiek

            Jesus, you’ll try to derail anything.

            The FBI maintains a list. But anything more is a “no-no”? http://www.vocativ.com/257325/mass-shooting-database/

            Tell your party to stop blocking any attempts to do anything about mass shootings. The more we can study this, the better info we’ll have on how to curtail it. Unless that would be a “no-no” or an “oopsie.”

      • Allan Williams

        At this point I would be OK with any movement…any regulation at all. Knock the capacity of a magazine from 60 to 30 if you want (I’d prefer less than 10). Make all firearms that aren’t explicitly for hunting bright orange or something. Good grief, just do something…anything.

        At some point (I hope) we will have gun control…we will join the rest of the civilized world. The only question is how many lives will it take. I mean, if Newtown didn’t get it started, well, we are a long way from any real action.

        • jgrillo

          I guess it’s no secret I am a strong advocate of gun ownership. With that said, the argument for a magazine of perhaps between 5 and 10 rounds has merit. Statistics show that the average rounds fired in a self-defense situation with a handgun is about 2-3 rounds on average.

          • Allan Williams

            There ya go…see something we can agree on.

          • MC Planck

            Then you’ll like my solution: if it holds more than six bullets, it requires a Class III license. Simple, clear, and relies on laws and mechanisms already in place.

        • hipsteriac

          It’s not how many lives it will take. It’s which lives it will take.

      • William Lee

        We haven’t heard about the Orlando weapon, but I believe the San Bernardino AK15 was modified to full automatic. At any rate, it does seem to have a high reputation among mass shooters.

        • jgrillo

          No it wasn’t but there was an attempt to do so. First, it is extremely difficult, even for a licensed gunsmith, to modify a semi-auto into a fully auto. The killer(s) tried to modify the weapon into a fully automatic weapons, but government tests afterwards showed that the modification to fully automatic mode was performed but failed.

          • Zog Hackendorft

            I assumed full-auto as well. Just a further testament to how powerful these types of weapons are, especially in a very crowded environment.

            But of course they must have legitimate uses in home defense and game hunting. /s

          • LarryBurt

            I’m going back 40 years or more so I can’t remember which., but either the M-14, or the M-16 was as simple as filing off a little nub that interrupted the auto-repeat.

        • LarryBurt

          The videos on TV sounded like single shot per squeeze, semi-auto. that can still dump a lot of rounds in a very short time.

      • MC Planck

        Look to Australia if you want answers. Google Jim Jeffries Gun Control on YouTube if you want it presented in utterly foul, hilarious language.

        My simple solution: everything that holds more than six rounds requires a Class III license. It’s not enough, but it’s a start. Take a gander at how many massacres are committed with full auto weapons – of which there are plenty legally licensed and owned in the USA. Oh right the number is ZERO.

      • LordDart

        And so your solution(s) to gun violence is…..what?

        Please lay it out. I’d be interested…

      • LarryBurt

        Very sorry for this, but those are dumb dumb dumb arguments, as is this, but that’s all yours deserve.

      • Chammy

        Sorry I am so late to reply to you – but here it is. F**k you. I am proud not to know what a killer weapon is called I just know there is no need for these weapons in the hands of citizens. And you are an a;hole and an idiot

    • The AR-15 type of weapon has a more-or-less standard type of magazine well, originally designed for a ten-round magazine but expanded to 20 rounds before being accepted for regular Army issue. Adding capacity to the basic magazine design is an engineering challenge, but there’s a trade-off between capacity and rates of failure-to-feed and failure-to-eject.

      Note that the original M-16 had a full-automatic function. The reason for the capability was to improve the odds of hitting a distant target in limited visibility conditions. But long bursts made holding the rifle on target difficult, so it was modified to deliver three-round bursts in the M16A2. In close quarters,semi-automatic fire is almost always more useful.

      Note that in most jurisdictions, hunters are limited to three rounds in the gun for most game animals. Thus, the NRA’s insistence that ammo-sexuals need mega-magazines in order to reach climax is not related to hunting or self-defense.

    • jbinphilly

      Sure as hell Congress won’t say FU to the NRA in an election year.

    • LarryBurt

      I wish I wondered.

  • jgrillo

    There is no difference between an AR15 and a standard semi-automatic rifle often used in hunting except in looks and feel. “AR” doesn’t stand for “assault rifle” which is a fully automatic weapon banned from the general public. AR stands for Arma-lite, which is the company that originally produced the weapon. Automatic weapons cannot be purchased at gun shows/shops/sporting goods stores. With an AR15, you still have to squeeze the trigger each time for every round you want to fire.

    My point is that it is nothing more than a “cool looking” semi-automatic rifle…the President doesn’t want to ban semi-automatic weapons (as he has stated in the past), just it seems he is implying here that perhaps the AR15 is the problem. Yes, it is the same gun used in Sandy Hook, Newton, and now here in Orlando simply because it is the most popular type of semi-automatic rifle in the U.S.

    There is a commonality with all these attacks (Sandy Hook, Colorado, Newton, Orlando, etc)…our database is lacking. I do fault the NRA because their stance has been that accidentally, law abiding citizens are placed on the list from time to time (even the late Sen Kennedy was on the list at one time). I disagree…We need a comprehensive, effective, database for mental illness, criminals, and those suspected of terror links…and if the FBI had obviously been following this guy, why wasn’t he on the list? In my opinion, it is not the gun…killers will just choose to use other types of guns if the AR15 is banned…the issue is that too many criminals, those with mental illness, and even those on a terror watch list are allowed by purchase guns legally here in the U.S. I believe anyone wishing to purchase a weapon (whether it be at a gun show, shop, friend-to-friend sale, etc) needs to be checked against a database. The government’s database failed us with Dylan Roof, the Colorado murderer and now in Orlando.

    • TheFreakinGorn

      What about magazines? Why does anyone need a magazine bigger than say, 10 rounds for hunting or for self defense?

    • LarryBurt

      There are several major differences between an AR15 and a semi-automatic hunting rifle, not the least of which is the job it is designed to do. For one thing, if a hunter needs more than two or three rounds at a time, he better plan on buying his meat at a grocery store. Most hunting rifles will have maybe a 7-9 round capacity. Most hunters would not consider subjecting firing their rifle that many times that fast and having any expectation of it still being able to hit anything..The Assault Rifle (meaning of AR is immaterial), used at close range, doesn’t really care about accuracy.

      Beyond that, the most significant difference is the psychological profile of the person buying the weapon. Not all AR15 buyers intend to shoot up a public place, but no one with a choice, intending to shoot up a place, gets a hunting rifle. If this guy had had to reload after 9 shots, the on sight guard might have been able to prevent a great number of deaths.

    • hipsteriac

      “too many criminals, those with mental illness, and even those on a terror watch list” are the problem? How about the “law-abiding gun lover” who drops the gun out of his pocket at the Wal-Mart and puts a bullet through a child? How about all the “responsible” gun lovers who shoot their neighbors through a wall while reloading? How about all those “good guys” whose kids have their friends over, find a loaded weapon, and a guest ends up dead? There is no difference between them and the people you list. As long as people have access to guns, other, innocent people will wind up dead.

  • bambuhostel

    isis didnt do this. This was done by an angry, gay hating AMERICAN. He claimed allegiance to isis in a phone call for more effect. But this guy is not isis.

    • I think that may be an important point that will inevitably be lost. ISIS wasn’t involved in the planning of this. The shooter called 911 to swear his allegiance to ISIS, and ISIS therefore claimed credit for it retroactively, but this wasn’t an attack plotted overseas.

      • bambuhostel

        exactly. We have less of an isis problem than we do an American problem. A place where every angry, sick, wacko can get a military style rifle. And I dont want the trumpers to change the conversation to isis.

    • jgrillo

      You’re probably right that this killer was not part of any terrorist sleeper cell. But at the same time, ISIS seeks to influence and encourage Muslims around the world to trigger attacks against the West. So in a sense…yes, they did do this and my opinion is they are indeed responsible, albeit indirectly.

      • bambuhostel

        more reason now than ever that there should be more scrutiny of semi auto sales.

      • Lumpenproletariat

        Violent people struggling with mental illness have latched on to ideologies to justify their violent impulses long before Daesh came into the picture.

        The ex-wife of the shooter described him as violent and unstable – but not really religious (at the time.)

        In short: it’s a nut with a gun cloaking himself in an ideology. Tomorrow, next week, next month (probably no later) it’s gonna be another nut, cloaking himself in a different ideology. To point to anything else is giving Daesh FAR more credit than they deserve.

      • Fine. ISIS wants to take credit because they are losing their war. In the meantime, we have to do something more concrete to deal with the domestic threat.

    • dmhlt_66

      Most likely … but the bottom line is:
      Hate-mongering Homophobe + Livid Seeing 2 Guys Kissing + NO Gun = A Few Nasty Facebook Comments
      Hate-mongering Homophobe + Livid Seeing 2 Guys Kissing + AR-15 Assault Rifle = 50 PEOPLE DEAD + 53 WOUNDED

  • MYMY

    So will the GOP EVER realize that it it is the ease of obtaining weapons in the USA that makes them a threat in the hands of any determined to do harm?

    • hipsteriac

      They know. They don’t care. They’re on the payroll of the NRA, which in turn is a marketing front for the gun manufacturers, who care more about profits than the lives of innocent people.

  • IndependentLiberal

    Ban any weapon that uses a clip or can be easily concealed (revolver).

    Only legal weapons are single shot bolt-action or shotgun.

    Any legal weapons must go through background check. Check includes national database for mental illness. Change laws to require mental health industry to report possible threats.

    A hobby does not overule a life.

    I feel that the 2nd ammendment has been misinterpreted. We have a trillion dollar military and a militia is no longer necessary. The authors of the ammendment wrote that at a time when it took 20 seconds to load a musket.

    • LarryBurt

      That’s the kind of extreme talk that makes the case for people who believe the government wants to take their guns away, and makes it much, much harder to get reasonable gun control. Selling to people who agree with you, gains nothing. Progress comes from getting those who disagree to come part way.

      • hipsteriac

        Those who disagree will never “come part way.” They are selfish, stupid pricks who care more about fetishizing fake phalluses to compensate for their sexual frustration than they are the lives of human beings — including the lives of school children.

        The only way things will change is when politicians decide to act — and that won’t happen until they are personally confronted with the reality of the situation. Ever notice how anti-gay politicians see the light when their own child comes out of the closet? How they are anti-choice until their daughter needs an abortion?

        The minute a crazed gunman slaughters the children of a few of these hypocritical, self-absorbed assholes, or makes it into Congress and turns the House and Senate chambers into shooting galleries, ripping the bodies of our government NRA payroll to shreds with an assault weapon, you’ll see tough gun control legislation pass faster than you can blink.

        Until then, America’s anti-life gun lovers will continue to make the rest of us unsafe.

        • LarryBurt

          Good luck getting 150 M+ people to support politicians who would support you getting what you want.

    • drzaius

      I would stick to the definition of arms in the 18th century.

      • spine

        I see, you are a true originalist.

      • IndependentLiberal

        Well, that is what I am going for, however, you can’t unring a bell or roll back technology. I think what I propose is fair, people can still hunt and/or protect themselves from bears and wolves in remote places.

        • drzaius

          One thing I’ve noticed. The 2nd says nothing about bullets.

  • oldhandatthis

    So is the NRA comfortable defending an ISIL terrorist attack on Americans?

    • drzaius

      Of course.

      If they could do sandy hook what couldn’t they do.

      Wait for the false flag hoaxers to come out.

    • Lumpenproletariat

      Of course they do. It sells guns. It’s why they’ve opposed smart guns and any manner of liability or responsibility on the part of the makers and users of human killing machinery.

      They don’t want safer guns. They want people to shoot up nightclubs – ‘cuz it sells more guns.

  • bruin1953

    The NRA wants every customer in the every nightclub in America to carry a gun at least equal to the most powerful weapon the potential criminal may bring to the club.

  • frankelee

    Well I’m not sure what gun restrictions he’s thinking since he did not say, but, horrible as it is, it used to be the wounded far outnumbered the killed when a madman pointed a gun into a crowd. Now the AR-15 has changed all that. You’re not going convince Americans to disarm themselves because a radicalized Muslim decided to shoot up a group of innocent people, but maybe we can convince people that it’s time to stop selling weapons meant for high volume killing on the battlefield.

    • hipsteriac

      Did a radicalized Muslim shoot up a group of innocent people here in the U.S. recently? If so, I missed it — though I did notice how a likely closeted homosexual, filled with self-loathing, acted out by killing a bunch of gay people.

  • Vonus

    Sadly, we’ve already decided that this IS the kind of country we want to be. Gays (Orlando), blacks (Charleston), and white 1st graders (Newtown) must all be sacrificed to the god named NRA.

  • Flags should remain at half mast until the 2nd amendment is repealed. I’m done.