France Pledges Retaliation Against Islamic State

French President Francois Hollande vowed to “be unforgiving with the barbarians from Daesh,” adding that France would act within the law but with “all the necessary means, and on all terrains, inside and outside, in coordination with our allies, who are, themselves, targeted by this terrorist threat,” the New York Times reports.

FavoriteLoadingSave to Favorites
  • Robert

  • citizenupset

    There was a time in history when France was the all powerful. Now it comes to this, I’m gonna kick your ass, as soon as my friends agree to help me do it.

    • Mike

      Yes, just like the US in Afghanistan and the two Iraq wars.

      After the attacks of 9/11, France was one of the first nations to offer military assistance to the US. They were also among the first to join the US in the 1st Iraq war. They declined to participate in the 2nd Iraq war and advised Bush against it.

      They’re strong and loyal allies and wiser than us, yet right wing politicians in the US ridicule French strength and resolve.

      • chisholm

        Remember how much the Republicans hated France for not going into Iraq? The whole “freedom fries” thing?

        • Big C

          My favorite was when a bunch of Republicans brought thousands of bottles of French wine (that were already bought) and poured it into the gutters outside the French consulates in NY and LA.

          That’ll show em!

          • chisholm

            i did not know that. I don’t know whether to thank you or block you.

      • Silent_Partner

        And now are trying to use them as their political prop despite ridiculing them for eyars, like they give a shit what happened in that country.

    • eve

      I’m very sure they are not waiting on anyone. If no other country was with them, they’d continue on with very effective action.

      • One’s sympathy is entirely with the French, but wonder what “very effective action” will involve? We’ve seen that killing Bin Laden simply brought more serpents out from under their rocks. Killing more “terrorists” will probably have the same impact, but the choices are shrinking…dealing with these 7th Century minds is always tiresome.

        • peterjohn936

          Revenge may not be an effective military action but it can be an effective political action.

        • Hawkeye

          You go after the prime head and whatever subordinate heads are powerful enough to act independently. Very specific operations like what got Bin Laden, but targeting the core leadership. What is a caliphate without a caliph? The US, France, Great Britain, Germany and Russia almost certainly all have the special tactical forces, any one of which probably can go any where it pleases in ISIS, quick in, quick out. Don’t use drones, send in the Seals, etc. Hit teams if you will.
          Leave the masses of ground troops to the Kurds with allied air cover.

          And pete’s sake keep Israel out of this. Enough of any talk of allying with Assad, too. He should have no more part in this than Israel.

          Additionally the Saudis and other Sunni’s have to be forced to stop bankrolling ISIS. Its time to take off the gloves there too.

        • tonyCobs

          I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. The enemy is not ‘them’ vs ‘us’ anymore. Reports suggest that some the attackers in Friday’s attacks were French nationals.
          If they are, how does talking about immigration policy even make sense? French immigration policy in the 60s maybe, but it’s a bit late to do anything about that now!

          These youths get brainwashed online and travel to Syria to find a ‘purpose’ to their miserable existence and then come back to destroy. This will have to be tackled with a increase of our intelligence capabilities never seen to this day and – I fear it is unavoidable – a loss in some individual liberties.

    • andereandre

      You realize that France is fighting a war in Mali against an Islamist movement?
      Probably not. Enjoy your freedom fries.

      • Jonas Grumby

        They are amazing , aren’t they? Years of Right Wing media has damaged their brains. They lack knowledge of even the most basic facts.

        • gnatswatting

          Deprogramming the victims of decades of right wing talk radio should be a priority of the Department of Education in a Hillary Clinton administration.

    • Cedric

      I see what you are saying. They were talking all tough but said with allies. That is all great and all but it sounds weak. They need to respond with an all out vow to crush the Islamic state by all means necessary…this is a battle to preserve the safety of their people after all.

      • Avatar27

        To be fair, France has been among one of the most pro-active military engagement in recent years throughout Africa and the Middle East. More so than even the U.K. who have been dithering over extending air strikes in Syria, for example.
        Which is likely the reason why they’ve become such a prolific target?! Plus there is speculation that French immigrant communities are somehow less integrated in the “banlieues” of France than in other Western countries, but that may or may not be a reason too …

        • Cedric

          Good points. I think they will likely have to step up their already considerable involvement and role in response.

          • Avatar27

            Thanks for the reply! 🙂
            I believe that with Australia taking a pause on activity in Syria at the moment & the new Canadian government pulling back from the region; it’s left only Russia, France and the US as the principal combatants standing. Russia has been targeted with the downing of that jet in Egypt & now these attacks in Paris … It might be a change of strategy as I.S. begin to retreat on the ground. Sinjar has just been retaken and their executioner Emwazi has apparently been killed. Plus the US took out an IS leader in Libya too. Thankfully Western forces + Kurdish forces are getting better at fighting them, it seems!

    • oldhandatthis

      France has the resources of NATO to call on, and potentially others beyond that. It takes time to pull it together but I expect ISIS made a fatal error yesterday.

      We also have a tradition of making a hard early raid to demonstrate our resolve, and unlike Al Queda, ISIS has targets we can hit to hurt them especially if we go beyond precision strikes and destroy their infrastructure.

      • Hawkeye

        I would guess that ISIS has too much of a permanently located administration one whose leaders can be targeted much eaiser than al Queda. It pays to remember that most of the al Queda leadership is dead. The ISIS leadership is more vulnerable with less potential for collateral loss.

        • oldhandatthis

          We can also look at turning off all electric and telecom services along with destroying anything that is generating income and where appropriate cutting road and bridges to isolate pieces of the country.

          • OBforObama

            Then everybody suffers more, and we get the blame, and they recruit more.

          • oldhandatthis

            I understand your concerns, but either we are going to war with the IS or we are not, no matter what we do I am afraid they seem determined to wage war on the west.

      • digger5

        I agree with this and don’t really understand why we have not heard of NATO involvement. The cornerstone of the NATO alliance is that if one member is attacked, it is considered an attack on all members. This is the right organization to fight ISIS

        • oldhandatthis

          The attack only happened last night in France and ISIS only took credit for it today. At this point national leadership and intel agencies are coordinating and trying to figure out which non-NATO countries we can count on and how to manage the baggage between the Turks and Kurds, the Iranians and Saudis, along with questions about Russian reliability. Taking some time at this point to get it right can make a difference.

    • vtbikerider

      I’d go with “I’m gonna kick your ass…” as you can bet your croissant that the Legion is saddling up as we speak.

      • oldhandatthis

        The French military is excellent and the DGSE (General Directorate for External Security) handles foreign intel and has it’s own special ops forces.

    • cmb

      Even countries, if they’re lucky enough to survive, get smarter as they age.

    • growe

      Oh bullshit. There are 65 million people in France, it is size of NY and PA combined. Its power was outsized when US young and most of world primitive. I like when civilized countries coordinate as a team don’t you? I don’t want a W approach from our NATO allies, do you?

  • Mike

    Lafayette, nous somme avec vous!

    Lafayette, we are with you.

  • Hagar32Grady

    Hoping this time when they find out who was responsible, they do not attack Bolivia or Argentina instead.

    • montag

      No, they’ll attack Iceland and Greenland this time so they won’t get bogged down in the summer heat.

  • eve

    France and the UK and the US in another war as allies. With other allies, too, of course.

    Makes me want to cry that this is necessary. As well as so upset for the lives lost yesterday and the grieving friends and families.

    War.

  • Retaliation begets retaliation, which begets more retaliation. Would love to see Marine Le Pen’s poll numbers after this.

    • BoredMe

      This is why I don’t fucking understand terrorists. All this will bring to the Islamic world is war.

      • Jonas Grumby

        Because it is a Holy War. It is why our Christians want to turn the Middle east into glass. All each side wants is Armageddon because their respective Magic Sky Man deems it thus.

        Religion kills.

        • SeattleDemo

          Thank you Jonas for making the key point.

          Hyper-Atheist Sweden just doesn’t seem to feel the need to impose a “Volvoes Only” mandate worldwide despite their godlessness.

      • Hawkeye

        ISIS is attempting to establish a caliphate, that takes a caliph. Cut off the head of the organization and there is no caliph. Then let the locals mop up or whatever. There need not be a big war here. In fact it is almost certainly better for there not to be one, but there must be positive and effective responses that go right to the heart of ISIS.

  • BoredMe

    American right-wingers aren’t even angry; they’re just glad for the opportunity to grandstand.

    Remember, they hate the French, and don’t really consider them part of our civilization.

    • chisholm

      What was the criticism of Kerry back in 04? “He sounds French?”

      • montag

        Worse – he looked French, they said.

    • gnatswatting

      Absolutely. But in displaying their apparent schadenfreude, wingnuts are also putting on public display their ignorance of history and of world affairs.

      So whenever they stick their necks outside the realm of the right wing echo chamber they are going to get their butts kicked by those whose understanding of the world is not a set of talking points heard from Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity.

  • BoredMe

    Remember, France…while I’m certain that we’ll help….

    If worse comes to worse, remember that a certain other permanent Security Council member nation defied the UN 10 years ago. Use that precedent to your advantage if you have to.

  • Avatar27

    With President Hollande’s talk about War, there is a question about invoking NATO’s Article V (if I recall the right one?), which says an attack on one NATO member is an attack on all!
    It’s only been used once before: after 9/11 for NATO to join America’s war in Afghanistan, of course.

  • RadicalCentrist

    I say this having lived in France for a few years, as one who loves France and the French people: You have an absolute right to retaliate against such barbaric crimes and i will not blame you if you do, However, if you do so, do not have any illusions that it will end the threat. The US went into Afghanistan to destroy Al Qaeda. While it certainly disrupted the structure of the original Al Qaeda and eventually killed or caught most of the perpetrators of 9/11, new threats arose-AQ in the Arabian Peninsula, AQ in Iraq, Boko Haram, the groups in East Africa, Al Nusra and so-on up to ISIS. There can be little doubt that if ISIS were wiped off the face of the earth, some new group would arise to take its place.

    So what can we do? First, there needs to be some settlement of the Syrian War. To achieve this it will be necessary to swallow our pride and work with Russia and even Iran, because they control Assad. Iran, as the protector of the Shiites knows that ISIS is a threat to them as much as it to the West, as the bombings of Shiite neighborhoods in Beirut controlled by Hezbollah shows.

    Second, the islamist ideology needs to be combated. Web sites that incite young people to kill must be blocked or taken down. Mosques that preach jihad cannot be tolerated. In the laws of all countries freedom of speech and religion do not extend to incitement to murder. Include Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or any other sects if they incite murder as well.

    Third, everything possible needs to be done to infiltrate the cells active in Europe and any in North America as well. It is also true in the case of France that the prisons are a major site of radicalization. The Charlie Hebdo and Kosher supermarket killers were ex-inmates and I understand that one of the guys at the Bataclan had a long criminal record for non-terror-related crimes. I also suspect that some of the weapons were obtained through criminal gangs, because Ak-47s are not easy to get in France.

  • mfa123

    France and Russia. Has there ever been a better time to call for an all-out invasion? NATO and Russia should all send in a massive ground force. No more dilly dally Smithers. Unleash the hounds

    • cmb

      All these terror groups are Sunni proxies for Sunni radicals in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Pakistan. The end of the House of Saud is an important part of resolving this mess.

      Shia Iran will take a bite out of the Sunni radicals but there’s bound to be lots of instability for a good while. The West needs to get out of the business of propping up repressive regimes that refuse to give young people social or economic opportunities that are preferable to jihad.

      Like Obama said, this is a long term problem with no easy solutions. We need to take a long hard look at our Sunni “allies” and hold them all accountable for teir part in funding these dangerous radicals.

    • Hagar32Grady

      With respect…I might add that that was the same plan our glorious leaders , W & Unka Dick came up with when they invaded Iraq. Overthrow Saddam (a despicable Despot) and his Sunni Government. Where does IS and al Quida get most of their recruits ? The vast majority of them are Sunni Iraqi. Better have an end game this time….I’m just saying. …..We didn’t do this with the Nazis, Italian Fascists or the Japanese………. You have to have some sort of Government or there is nothing but despair. Despair breeds ISIS….. Someone has to run the traffic signals, collect the garbage and make sure the sewage works. More Muslims are killed by these a-holes than Westerners….and more Muslims are fighting them than Westerners…..We can’t just lay waste to that hellhole. Although I will dance a jig when someone takes out that chinless wonder Assad 😉

      • mfa123

        What makes it a bit easier is that Isis has taken territory from groups with legitimate claims such as the Kurds and Iraqis. the idea would be to restore them to the rightful sovereign groups.

    • RadicalCentrist

      And then what? Nor will that stop home-grown radicals in Europe and even here from acting. I don’t buy the talking heads that this was a sophisticated attack-how much planning and training do you need to walk into a restaurant or concert hall and open fire? We’ve certainly seen mass killings here from incoherent, drooling loons.

      • mfa123

        The main thrust would be to dislodge and destroy Isis in all parts of Iraq currently held. Then Syria. Eliminate the threat to the world. It is a national security crisis unlike when we went into Iraq. When would we leave? How do we get out? Hard to say but I am no genius . I just know that Isis is too strong to rely on regional militants

        • RadicalCentrist

          I think that could be achieved, but again, then what? Someone has to hold and control that territory. In the case of Iraq, the Baghdad government lost that territory because the Sunnis didn’t want to live under a Shiite-dominated government. The new guy is supposedly more open to sharing power than Maliki, but I’m still not sure Sunnis would accept long-term. And we have seen, the Iraqi army won’t even pretend to fight except to defend their Shiite territory (and even then, only with Iranian help). In Syria, it’s probably even worse, since the Shiite is Assad, and he has tons of blood on his hand.

          Iraq and Syria are both artificial states created by Britain and France after World War I, mixing Sunnis and Shiites and Kurds (+Christians in Syria). There may have been periods where they papered over their differences, but that seems impossible now. Biden was right to propose splitting Iraq into 3 states, Shiite, Sunni and Kurd and the same probably applies to Syria (maybe join the Shiite/Christian areas to Lebanon). And getting our “ally” Turkey to accept a Kurdish state is very difficult, since their Kurds will want to join it.

          I accept that ISIS is a dire threat that needs to be eliminated, but I’d hate to be back in 10 years with ISIS 2.0 and unless we have a solid plan for the afterwards that is all too likely likely to happen.

    • gnatswatting

      Invasion of what? Iraq and Syria? It was Dubya’s Iraq War that led to the formation of ISIS in the first place.

      Do those who call for such ground based military action have any intention of enlisting in an infantry or armored unit?

      • mfa123

        This not shrubs war. Isis is a legitimate world threat that needs to be eliminated. Yes, Iraq and Syria. and sad to say but probably make some kind of peace with Assad.

        Yes someone has to fight and Americans would die. I do not say that lightly

  • WADE_NYC

    Have we heard from Mr. Noun, Verb, and 911 yet?

  • peterjohn936

    If France is going to retaliate then here is a few ways: 1) Help the Kurds with money and arms. 2) Put boots on the ground even if it is only special ops. 3) Target the leadership harder, hunt them down and kill them. 4) Increase the intensity of the air war.

  • frankelee

    Some groups just won’t be happy until you kill them, or they kill you. If you think they have rational reasons, tangible demands, or some kind of sane endgame you’ll find you’re sadly mistaken. If ISIS demands to burn, let them burn.

    • gnatswatting

      Sadly, that tends to be true. The more extreme the group is, the less likely it is to be influenced by rational thought. When religion is part of the mix they feel that they are doing the work of the supernatural and don’t need to talk to anybody else.

      As an aside, extreme groups on different sides of an ideological divide often have more in common with each other than they do with moderate forces nominally on their own side. Look at how similar hardcore fundamentalist Christians and hardcore fundamentalist Muslims are to each other on many issues.

  • dsound

    “France Pledges Retaliation Against Islamic State” Well yeah….

  • Mike

    ISIS is going to get its m_____ f____ing ass kicked.

  • growe

    I deliberately went to dinner with friends in a packed Lebanese restaurant next to a mosque in Mulhouse France last night. Muslims wore Not in my Name pins and armbands and people repeatedly toasted the police, France, recovery of injured, mempory anf families of the dead.